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Eh, I'm not really too sure on this one. I definitely think that the tech media treats any version of Windows like a pile of crap. I'm not saying Vista is absolutely amazing, but it's definitely better than what they're saying, especially with the advent of Service Pack 1. People must also understand having the market share that Microsoft has makes it difficult to cater to every single person using their software. I'm also not too sure where people are finding out about how long the demos were, either. If you could point me to where it says that, that'd be fantastic.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008 3:04:54 GMT by .trance\\
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Ok guys, I have a story to tell.
I heard a LOT of shit about vista from people, including on SZ, I continued to use XP and was happy.
Then I bought a new laptop, and was having problems downgrading to XP (I didn't even give vista a chance after all the things I heard about it, why should I?). I decided I would just take it to my buddies in kamloops and get him to do it for me, because he is more experienced. Then the car broke and I was stuck with vista for at least a week. I used vista and for the first four days I absolutely hated every minute of it, then after a while it occured to me I didn't encounter some of the problems I did on XP, and it wasn't near as bad as all the hype said it was. Now I'm voluntarily sitting here, on my laptop, operating vista and loving it. Seriously, I hate the people that told me vista was satan in a shiny package. It's really not that bad people, and I know for a fact there's a ton of people out there saying vista sucks just because it's the thing to say. I admit I'm not that heavy into computers, but I believe that it is a minority that is more knowlagable about computers, and everybody else gets along fine.
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totally agreed. ^^
I just am totally fed up with the fact that people continue to smite windows OSs when half of them haven't even tried them.
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You don't build hardware around software. The developers jobs are to build software that will function on the systems given. If it isn't going to happen, then it isn't going to happen. But when it's free there's on reason to complain.
And ASUS has already proved to us that Linux is desktop ready. With the coming launches of their two new systems, they will have two laptops, and two desktops. All of which will be capable of running either Linux, or Windows XP Pro.
All I can say is that once it becomes available to the general market on a mass level, you'll see manufactures begin to support it. Why? Because it would be in demand. It currently isnt, and right now if you're a linux user, you have to be smart enough to use the operating system effectively. If you aren't, and you and you aren't able to figure out how to get your hardware working, then you don't really belong on a linux system unless you're not the administrator.
If you're an administrator, and a competent one, you'll find one of the millions of work arounds out there.
It's open source. You can do what ever you want. It will always work, regardless.
And if Computer manufactures wanted to deploy it full scale to general consumers, it wouldn't be a problem. They would only have to write the drivers.
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The thing is Linux just doesn't have the kind of market share that Windows OSes have. Windows XP and Vista let you do all your work with some extra gloss thrown in. What's so wrong with that? After all, isn't an OS meant for you to get your work done? The average PC user who buys a new computer and hasn't a clue about the intricacies of customizing an OS is very happy with Windows. His work and entertainment is all he gives a shit about.
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Ok guys, I have a story to tell. I heard a LOT of shit about vista from people, including on SZ, I continued to use XP and was happy. Then I bought a new laptop, and was having problems downgrading to XP (I didn't even give vista a chance after all the things I heard about it, why should I?). I decided I would just take it to my buddies in kamloops and get him to do it for me, because he is more experienced. Then the car broke and I was stuck with vista for at least a week. I used vista and for the first four days I absolutely hated every minute of it, then after a while it occured to me I didn't encounter some of the problems I did on XP, and it wasn't near as bad as all the hype said it was. Now I'm voluntarily sitting here, on my laptop, operating vista and loving it. Seriously, I hate the people that told me vista was satan in a shiny package. It's really not that bad people, and I know for a fact there's a ton of people out there saying vista sucks just because it's the thing to say. I admit I'm not that heavy into computers, but I believe that it is a minority that is more knowlagable about computers, and everybody else gets along fine. I shouldn't have to tell them that I really do want to install something 8 times. I shouldn't have to click the name of an administrator account everytime I want to access something in the Control Panel. The new start menu is horrible. Gadgets (why the hell didn't they just call them widgets like normal people?) work better in Konfabulator and Dashboard. Internet Explorer. You shouldn't have to buy an entire new machine to install the OS (Linux and OS X updates can run on damned near anything). I could go on and on but I have to go to work now.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008 12:40:35 GMT by Josh
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I'm aware my point won't be valid in time. Which is why I used words like "right now," "changes," and "months." I'm not talking about things running. I'm talking about them working. Linux is inhibited from playing a major role in quality control for the matter that hardware vendors aren't all too welcoming. Because of this, it's incredibly hard for developers to even make compatible drivers. I'm all for Ubuntu, but it's not desktop-ready. Again, if it works on your pc, i'm happy for you, but when do we start adapting hardware more around software than software around hardware? I'm sure you can throw me a few examples, but an OS isn't one. What is this "quality control" that you keep talking about? And how is Linux "inhibited" in that area. The quality of Ubuntu has been much more consistent and improving than Windows. You can run Linux on any machine under the sun, and it will work. Windows Vista? Yeah right. And why in the name of all that is GPL'ed would you design hardware around software. I mean, it's one thing to do it for a closed component, like a graphics card, or a supercomputer that only models weather or something. But an extensible OS? You gotta be kidding me. Designing hardware around software is in direct opposition to the ideas of open source. When your hardware locks you in to being able to only do the things that your manufacturer wants you to do, your freedom to use is destroyed. You are advocating cyber-totalitarianism.
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I gotta agree there. Designing hardware around software is ridiculous. You have to design software around hardware. Been working pretty well for OS X and Linux Distros thus far. Microsoft, on the other hand, has the manufacturers work around them. It's dumb. If you have a Mac, you frequently get security updates and the like. Sometimes you get other updates though. Stuff that fixes problems only showing up on your system. I get a MacBook update at least once every other month. iMacs and Mac Pros are updated very frequently. It simply works when you do it this way.
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personally, I don't think vista is overly bad, but I agree with josh about some of the annoying things. However, I don't think it's "better than XP". I use XP and love it. However, on my new laptop, theres going to be vista. So, whatever. 
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k
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I hate Linux. It came pre-installed on my Webbook and whenever I plugged in earphones, sound would continue to come from my speakers. I skimmed through loads of support forums, websites, and contacted the manufacturer. Non of them helped. I then attempted to adjust the screen resolution and something similar to static was displayed. I thought nothing of it, and waiting for the resolution to switch back and... nothing. I then gave up and promptly installed XP, which I might add works flawlessly. And just to point out to people who are unaware, you can turn off the security pop-ups in Vista.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008 14:52:06 GMT by CorporateDan
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I hate Linux. It came pre-installed on my Webbook and whenever I plugged in earphones, sound would continue to come from my speakers. I skimmed through loads of support forums, websites, and contacted the manufacturer. Non of them helped. I then attempted to adjust the screen resolution and something similar to static was displayed. I thought nothing of it, and waiting for the resolution to switch back and... nothing. I then gave up and promptly installed XP, which I might add works flawlessly. And just to point out to people who are unaware, you can turn off the security pop-ups in Vista. That's strange. I would've thought that could be easily fixed by changing the output in Sound Preferences. As for the screen res thing, you have to be ready for that. When you have a system that you can mess with, sometimes you're gonna screw it up. In Linux, you have to be prepared to get down and dirty with the Command Line. Just have another machine so someone can walk you through it on IRC.
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I would prefer a couple hiccups in Vista than having to dick around with the command line and scan support forums with Linux.
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I hate Linux. It came pre-installed on my Webbook and whenever I plugged in earphones, sound would continue to come from my speakers. I skimmed through loads of support forums, websites, and contacted the manufacturer. Non of them helped. I then attempted to adjust the screen resolution and something similar to static was displayed. I thought nothing of it, and waiting for the resolution to switch back and... nothing. I then gave up and promptly installed XP, which I might add works flawlessly. And just to point out to people who are unaware, you can turn off the security pop-ups in Vista. That's strange. I would've thought that could be easily fixed by changing the output in Sound Preferences. As for the screen res thing, you have to be ready for that. When you have a system that you can mess with, sometimes you're gonna screw it up. In Linux, you have to be prepared to get down and dirty with the Command Line. Just have another machine so someone can walk you through it on IRC. As for the sound issue, changing Sound Preferences did nothing to sort the problem. The Linux support team at the company I bought the Webbook from say that even they didn't know how to fix the problem. As for the resolution, all I did was change the screen resolution to another setting, I wasn't screwing with anything. Changing the screen res is something an OS shouldn't struggle doing. Again the Linux support team were stumped. I shouldn't need some one talking me through changing the screen resolution or talking me through entering command lines because there isn't an easier way to fix something simple such as sound output or screen res.
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If they've never used Vista, or for that matter, couldn't identify it, what do their opinions matter? The whole experiment is to show that a majority of the voices saying Vista sucks are just echos created by Apple/unix-based OS fan boys. There's been an anti-Microsoft/Windows trend going on for a while now, and people are just jumping on the bandwagon without any sort of homework being done. It's all on that site - people who haven't even tried Vista (and couldn't even identify it for that matter) are saying it's horrible because of everyone else saying the same thing. They never even got to try the OS, only got to watch a 10 minute demo by a Microsoft employee. How can they form an educated opinion on that? =\ I need only watch videos of the war in Iraq to know it's a waste of life, time, and money. Do I need to travel there and experience it to form an educated opinion of it? No, I really don't think I do. Really, Vista may be thought of as being annoying, driverless, and whatnot, but it's not Vista's fault. The lack of drivers was because the lack of anticipation (and many, many companies decided Vista wasn't worth creating drivers for - or they wanted to take the short road). The thousands of security popups are because people complained for years about Windows being too insecure. Now that Microsoft has finally added in a ton of security efforts, people still complain. It's all a matter of "OS X does this" or "Linux does that" when it comes to Windows.
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You don't build hardware around software. The developers jobs are to build software that will function on the systems given. If it isn't going to happen, then it isn't going to happen. But when it's free there's on reason to complain. Just to make it painfully clear to the 3 or 4 people echoing that sentiment, that's exactly what i'm saying. Linux isn't something hardware vendors are too concerned about when it comes to testing products. So, even if you can get something to run on linux, that doesn't mean everything's going smoothly. Again, it's hell for developers to even write drivers that work. My friend installed Ubuntu a month ago, and even though his video card was recognize, it wouldn't set the resolution on his monitor. I'm not saying Linux won't run most of the time, but it's hardly as stable as people make it out to be. When I say it's not desktop-ready, I mean it. Sure, a hefty sum of people can get it to work without playing with video cards, but there's a large (competent) community that can't. Doesn't mean they didn't install it, doesn't mean they aren't on it right now. Just means etchy programming standards leading to, particularly in my experience, more issues and errors than i've ever experienced on XP. Yes, 'cause damn, "if it works, use it" is so oppressive. And again, i'm not saying "if it's not ready for me, it's not ready for you." I'm saying if you'd consider Vista ready for prime-time, than why Ubuntu (or for that matter, a decent chunk of linux os).
Oh, and beta, seriously, no.
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008 19:25:59 GMT by Aaron
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