Yeah, I don't really come here anymore. And yeah, it's weird that I'm posting all of a sudden in this thread. Oh, and it's also weird that I'm reviving this thread again. Most of you may not even know me. But anyway. . .

I read through this whole thread and the conclusion that I've come to is that no one has come up with a plausible or believable way that the universe and existence came about. Obviously it's here, but we can't quite completely grasp what spurred its creation.

So after coming to that conclusion, I have come to another one-- there's no way the human mind can figure out how it all started, at least at this point in time it cannot. There is no universally accepted theory as to how the universe came about. There are some with some pretty damn large followings, but there are none that can be accepted as fact.

Maybe much further into the future we'll discover what started all this, but I'm saving myself a lot of time by admitting that at this point in our existence we cannot come up with a complete way we, and everything else in the universe came to be. For who knows how long, we've been trying to figure it out and still haven't.

So pretty much, you're all wrong. But perhaps some of you have figured it out a smidge more than others. I say this because you provide reasons that support your theories, but then there are loop holes that can disprove them, or at least complicate them to a point where it gets ridiculous.

Yeah, idk. I think it'll be a long while before we can come to a conclusion to existence.


Last Edit: Aug 6, 2008 5:31:48 GMT by .trance\\

Let me just make the painfully obvious point that, with the exception of Fredy, no one here said they knew the answer. In fact, from what I can tell they all openly admitted that they couldn't be sure. And to top that off, there are very very few non-theists that completely accept any theory on the creation of the universe.

Dunno who you're talkin' to.


Last Edit: Aug 6, 2008 11:21:32 GMT by Aaron

I would just like to say I'm a christian, but the human imagination is an incredible thing. Think of all the great stories you've read or heard such as:
Moby Dick
Harry Potter
Journey to The Center of The Earth
Star Wars
etc.

This thread is interesting but confusing o.o

Seriously though, where does this 'God' come from? If you say everything has to have a creator, how was God created? And why doesn't He show Himself to prove that He exists? I don't know what category of Atheism I fit into, but I do know that I'll only believe in something that is proven. If God showed Himself and spoke to me, then I would turn into whatever religion He wants me to.

Or I would say that I'm hallucinating. Also, how do we know that God is not a female or some other gender? And how come God looks like a human or something close to human? So tell me, why can't the human mind create the concept of God? Just imagine a human with all powers. Like most power hungry people do anyway. They imagine themselves as Gods.

Then you say that He made humans write the bible. Then what is the proof of Adam and Eve? If Dinosaurs is already proven, how did Adam and Eve come about? This question has been on my mind since young and I still haven't found the answer.

I would post more, but dear thunder is here and I have go.

Questions are so much fun to answer. Ps: I'm a little rusty. Haven't debated in a while. xD


I'm assuming you didn't read the first post?

But anyways, The law of causality states that for every effect, there must be a cause. And that effects, becomes a cause, because it must also have an effect. ect.

Another way of saying it, everything must be moved by a mover, but every mover must also be moved.

However, the law also states that eventually, there must be an "ultimate cause" or an "ultimate mover". Kind of like looking at a line on dominoes falling, and then following it backwards to see if it goes on forever, but there has to be a beginning, because something had to initiate the first domino to fall, causing the next to fall, ect.

This "ultimate mover" or "ultimate cause" is believed by creationists to be God, simply because the law doesn't make sence without some sort of intelligence being the "ultimate cause".

But regardless of what the ultimate cause was, there must be one.


He doesn't because of people like you.

Which sounds kind of rude at first, but let me explain. The point of religion is to be saved by faith, and without faith, it isn't religion anymore. Religion is about believing in something and having faith. Having absolute scientific/empirical evidence, isn't faith.

My explanation sucks, and probably doesn't make sence, mostly cause I'm tired.


Because we know he isn't male either.


He doesn't. God looks nothing like humans. I'm going to assume your thinking about the bible verse that says "made in god's image". However, the concept that this means physically, is a misconception. It refers to the way we think, act, exist, ect.

Jesus, however, is an exception because he came to earth as a man, so he does look like us.


Simply because the concept of God is far too complicated to be imagined. It isn't like anything. It is unique. Our brains may be powerful, but like it or not, they can't create anything unique. And you may say yea well what about technology? That is based upon ideas inspired by things we already have/had.

The concept of God. Perfect. Divine. Heaven. Hell. We just can't create it with our minds.

If you think you could do it or another human could do it, you think way too highly of yourself, and I invite you to use that amazing imagination of yours and imagine "nothing" and then explain it to me.

Nothing is a much less complicated concept. I mean, hell, its nothing. Wanna try it?


I am slightly unsure of your question, but I will say that nowhere in the bible does it say that dinosaurs didn't exist.

Ok, that's enough. We're done. Everyone just go to sleep.

Well, if you say so ^^;

Sounds like a plan to me. *passes out*

i have something to back up the atheist theory here.


christmas was not always in december... it was originally in january but was later moved to december because december was such a dull month to live in it gave people something to look forwards to.

now if this is the case ( i can't remember where i found this but i'll look it up again) then the whoever wrote the bible claiming the birth of jesus to be on the 25th of december or so what we believe to be is actually false therefore meaning that the bible is just a book that has been passed through the ages where people have added and changed things cannot be a direct account of what actually is the case therefore we cannot see fit to truely believe that of what is written... does this mean that all the theories thereof are wrong?

Now i am gonna do some fishing about for this... i'll come back when i have more lol

Your argument would be valid if the bible actually said something about the 25th of December

Last time I checked, it doesn't.

every church i have been to push the fact that it is christs birthday christmas day the 25th of december...

now surely the churches would get this information from somewhere? i mean after all christmas is Christ's Mass isn't it? lol

i'm not trying to argue the point fredy i'm just trying to clarify something that i've read is all lol

I'm pretty sure Jesus was born in the middle of summer, actually..

Nobody actually knows the exact date of when jesus was born. Infact, nowhere in the bible does it give a date.

www.truechristian.org/are_you_a_t_c/christmas.htm